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May 25th, 2013, 7:51pm
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BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio (Read 2026 times)
sleepiggy
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BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Feb 06th, 2005, 7:08am
 
Hi,
I'm just wondering, what does the BOD/COD, BOD/TOC, COD/TOC ratio means? How does it affect biodegradability of a sample?
Also, what does the correlation of BOD, COD & TOC imply and affect?
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #1 - Feb 6th, 2005, 4:14pm
 
Because BOD requires a minimum of 5 days incubation before analysis and suffers from poor reproducibility; the other oxidation tests were developed to reduce the time required for analysis in hopes of using these tests for control of wastewater treatment processes. None of these testa measure a chemical directly; they only attempt to measure the amount of oxygen required to oxidize the various chemicals in the wastewater.

Historically, BOD was the first test developed and is used to this day to evaluate discharge quality in spite of the short comings of the test. The ratios are used to predict BOD when the quicker tests are used. Unfortunately, none of these tests measure specific chemicals and so the correlation between the tests varies considerably with different wastes.

Incidently, while the 5 day incubation period was selected because this was the time required for water in the Thames River to travel from London to the sea. Biological oxidation of wastewater will continue after this period.

I hope this simplified explanation will inspire you to look for additional references,   grrun       Grin
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #2 - Feb 7th, 2005, 6:09am
 
Dear Sleepiggy,

Grrun already nicely summarized the essential points.
Only one point left BOD/COD or BOD/TOC ratio gives you information about the ratio of readily and hardly biodegradable substances, i.e. this ratio will be zero if contaminants are not biodegradable and 1 (under idealized conditions) if all easily biodegradable.

Kind regards
T. Sobisch
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #3 - Feb 10th, 2005, 2:46pm
 
You ask, "What does the correlation of BOD, COD & TOC imply and affect?"

For waste water treatment, the ration of 1:1 is the ideal as mentioned.  That means that all the organic material present in the water will be broken down in an aerobic biological treatment system in 5 days or less.  For any other ratio, some of the organic pollutant in the water will be discharged somewhere.  This may or may not have an impact, depending on where it's going.

A great example is a tomato processing plant.  There, a lot of the organic material discharged is slowly degradable, like skin particles and the walls of the cells within the tomato.  Typically, this water winds up in an aerated pond and then into a settling pond.  The cellulous like material settles to the bottom and is slowly degraded under anaerobic conditions.  Under the right conditions, this seathing mess will decide to float to the surface and make a wonderful odor Shocked

Another example is the problem of discharging large quantities of slowly degradable organics into a river.  Somewhere downstream, it will degrade.  This can also cause problems.  Because of this, the TOC and COD numbers are being looked at more carefully and requirements are being based more on those measurements of degradability.

I don't think we've heard the last of this issue.

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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #4 - Jul 5th, 2008, 12:49pm
 
as far as I know, a COD:BOD ratio >6 means the material is not easily biodegradable..the other guys have already spoken excellently about everything related to this..
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #5 - Jul 9th, 2008, 1:29am
 
There are no firm numbers for these ratios. Most plants run these and come up with a ratio strictly as a process control. For example, at one of my plants, the BOD/COD ratio of 70%was used to estimated loadings from an anaerobic lagoon. However, BOD is a biological test and COD is a chemical degradation test. There will not be a linear relationship.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #6 - Jul 11th, 2008, 3:24pm
 
Hi,there;
BOD is 5 day lab test value,but we can use such as extension aeration process with SRT about 10-15 days to treat it. Roughly,BOD/COD <1/3 means it is not easy to biologic decomposed. In fact, this should be analysed case by case. If influence contains some special chemical like long chain hydrocarbon or high concentration COD, maybe we could engage anaerobic process ahead of aerobic process to break down the special chemcal so as to make them easy decompsed in aerobic process.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #7 - Jul 11th, 2008, 5:36pm
 
Hi,

I need to add a remark on Sobisch' previous post on this issue. For fully biodegradable matter (e.g. acetate) the BOD/COD ratio is not  zero, but around 0.65.
In the BOD-test, some of the substrate is converted to biomass, which is only partially respired (endogenous respiration), hence contributes to the oxygen depletion and thus to the BOD value. The biomass formed that is not respired does not contribute to the BOD value. The respiration (hence oxygen depletion) in the beginning of the test (so called "exogenous respiration", untill the substrate is depleted, of course also contributes to the BOD value.

One of the problems with BOD-determination (hence its numerical value) is that inoculum "A" reacts different from inoculum "B", because they can have different biokinetic values (Y, µmax, Ks,kd, KDO) for the different polluting compounds....

Besides that, the best inoculum is the bacterial consortium of the WWTP under consideration; they should be best adapted to the influent.

This, plus other factors contribute to the experimental error on BOD determination.

kind regards,


DS
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #8 - Jul 11th, 2008, 6:13pm
 
Hi,

I need to correct myself. The BOD/COD ratio for Acetate is not 0.65, but around 0.8 - 0.85. the value of 0.65 is the ASM1 default value for the Yield coefficient, which does not take into acccount the endogenic oxygen uptake over 5 days.

best regards,

DS
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #9 - Jul 23rd, 2008, 12:57am
 
Hi

If compunds are identified

C6H12O6 + 6O2 --> 6CO2 + 6 H2O

COD/TOC = 6M O2 / 6M C = 2.66 mg COD/mg organic carbon
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #10 - Mar 5th, 2010, 4:03am
 
Is it possible for a BOD result to > COD, or MUST COD ALWAYS  exceed BOD? If possible, what may this indicate?
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #11 - Mar 5th, 2010, 8:59am
 
Hi!

This link summerises well why i dislike BOD  Tongue
If I use it it is to look at the bod in the outlet to see if the plant is working well

http://www.activatedsludge.info/bod.asp

In stable conditions a chart with COD vs BOD of values form NORMAL operating conditions in your process should give useful information.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #12 - Mar 5th, 2010, 11:46am
 
See Hach publication "The Science of COD" (specifically pages 3&4):
http://www.hach.com/hc/static.template/templateName=HcDownloadResources.HcDownloadResources-CODBODTesting.htm/SESSIONID%7CBVRJMk56Z3dOekF5TlRZM09DWm5kV1Z6ZEV4SFJ3PT1BMDlSTQ==%7C


Perry Brake offers a comparison table of real data - from I suspect municipal wastewater treatment plants in the Pacific Northwest - on BOD, cBOD, COD and TOC.
http://www.perrybrake.com/Table1Extracted.pdf
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #13 - Mar 5th, 2010, 4:47pm
 
Hi Harri,

I have not read the link, but I am also a big "disliker" of BOD: too much time, effort and money for little information (and possible a lot of error, especially in industrial WW).

Martina, COD allways > BOD (except when BOD and COD are both =0, so non degradable matter, but that is a bit irrellevant)
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #14 - Mar 5th, 2010, 7:58pm
 
DS wrote on Mar 5th, 2010, 4:47pm:
Hi Harri,

I have not read the link, but I am also a big "disliker" of BOD: too much time, effort and money for little information (and possible a lot of error, especially in industrial WW).

Martina, COD allways > BOD (except when BOD and COD are both =0, so non degradable matter, but that is a bit irrellevant)


If we go back to one subject that is here all the time.. FOOD for bacteria and the use of sugar. here I think kg sugar is 1 kg BOD (but 1,2 COD ??) but others prefer dog food if I remember correctly. Nudge nudge, wink wink Dr Bug  Wink

PS in scandinavian countries the limits for many industries dont have any limit for BOD. However the COD, TSS, N and P limits are so strict than you can be sure that these values are not easy to reach.

Sweden, corect me if im wrong, is giving some limits only in TOC and not in COD or BOD7

Another discussion that I have no seen very often is discharge load unit mg/l or kg/d!

A question for everybody but especially the younger waste water audience out there! What plusses  and minuses both of these methods have??!
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #15 - Mar 8th, 2010, 4:15am
 
I was asking about the possibility of BOD > COD and when/how this may happen since we have encountered a sample recently which gave what appears to be consistent BOD results close to 4000 mg/L, yet a COD of only 1500 mg/L. The COD was repeated 2 x and confirmed.

During a repeat BOD test a week later (now outside of holding time)  the sample behaved very differently using the same dilutions, & gave 3 widely differing but lower results. I'm inclined to think the initial results were more correct, but can not explain the BOD/COD discrepancy.  

Due to a very strong smell (sulphury?) for BOD it was given an initial dilution of x50, then 3 secondary dilutions of 10, 20 and 50 mL per 400 mL.

Overall initial plus secondary dilutions as follows:

0.05% dilution depleted form 8.32 to 5.82, calc'ed as 3884 mg/L

0.10% dilution depleted from 8.30 to 3.82, calc'ed as 4120   "

0.25% dilution depleted from 8.25 to 0.26, cal'c as 3203    "

The 3rd dilution depleted too much, so would be disregarded, but still gave an indication of the BOD being high.

Little else was analysed, so I don't have other data to draw on.

Using simple test strips I can see the pH is neutral, it contains no nitrates, but it does give a positive reaction for ammonia. ( 6ppm or higher)

I'm struggling to make sense of all this.

Can the presence of ammonia (or anything else?) elevate the BOD to this extent? What concentration will be needed to do so?

Any other thoughts/ideas on this issue will be very welcome.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #16 - Mar 8th, 2010, 6:16am
 
Hi Martina,

Years back, I have also once come across such a situation, as far as I remember it was in case of a Gelatin manufacturing unit,

May be we can corelate somthing. At that time, I remember our chief chemist saying that there are situations where it can happen. he refferred to  TOC ( I forgot his reasoning though).

I didnt believe in that then, however after your detailed explaination it seems, he might be right.
Regards

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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #17 - Mar 8th, 2010, 1:35pm
 
Your BOD should never exceed your COD, at least not to any significant digits.  Values that you are reporting (4000 and 1500) should not happen.  My first suspicion is that you have some sort of chloride (or other halogen) interference in your sample.  Most labs, ours included, don't do any sort of chloride check prior to running a COD.  Standard Methods says that anything over 2000 mg Cl- /L shouldn't be run using traditional COD methods.  Another possibility is that pyridine 'and other related compounds' resist oxidation.  I don't know about the BOD of these types of compounds, but if they resist the COD reaction they probably will not oxidize under BOD conditions either.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #18 - Mar 8th, 2010, 3:18pm
 
Thank you David S. We do a Chloride check prior to the COD analysis and dilute accordingly to keep Cl down to <2000. The COD was repeated at 3 different dilutions from an unmarked container to remove analyst bias, and yielded a similar result each time.
I have not considered the possiblility of "pyridine 'and other related compounds' resist oxidation" thus far - ie focus on what can bias the COD low rather than assuming the BOD is biasing high. Will give that more thought.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #19 - Apr 23rd, 2010, 3:45am
 
Hi all

BOD can not  exceed than Cod but sometimes give these results 10 years befor I found same pb at that time we did our best what the result   ,,,
we found that the chemist do not take the sample as good method
and also the COD reagent was expier what I mean by this you have to check all of these
1- sample collection and presentative method
2- the correction of sample befor analysis
3- check all reagent used
4- make COD first then you can expect the suitable dilution factor for BOD
5 - do your best
waiting for your reply

best regards
ashraf  kotb
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #20 - Apr 26th, 2010, 5:06pm
 
Thanks Ashraf,
I never resolved this issue with 100% certainty. I did get the BOD repeated a 3rd time, and did get lower results then which better matched the COD results, but by then the BOD was well outside of holding time, so I could not be sure how correct this was. If so it  would imply some mistake was made with the initial 2 BOD analyses, maybe a dilution error, but if this was the case it was made unknowlingly by the staff and I was unable to discover evidence for this afterwards. So I'm afraid a bit of mystery remains regarding this rather puzzling BOD>COD case.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #21 - May 1st, 2010, 5:57am
 
Hii ALL...

im handling wwtp from the pulp and paper .. im use ferric cloride as a cogulant aid. but cod and bod still high.. it will be nice if you all can give me the chemical treatment method to reduced the cod and bod .
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #22 - May 2nd, 2010, 2:17pm
 
welcome

we work in the same field but the paper wastewater have high cod and suspended solids ,  aluminium sulphata ( alume ) and anionic polyer PAM is very good for this kinds of water but the first things that you have to keep in your mind < screning , primary treatment will remove about 60% only as maximum so primary treatment is not sufficient for this kind of water it is good only if you recycle the treated water
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #23 - May 3rd, 2010, 7:28am
 
Thanks consultant for your suggestion... Actually right now.. i try to combine primary method and advanced waste water treatment method.. with this combination method..i have reduce COD from 3300 to 300mg/l and BOD from 1000mg/ to 75 mg/l... but my target is 50mg/l for COD and 20 mg/l for BOD. Actually What the other cause cod and BOD high from wastewater pulp and paper.
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #24 - May 3rd, 2010, 9:27am
 
can you please tell me what the advanced wastewater treatment you use with combination with primary treatment
you can reach to your target by biological filtration GPH it is not expensive and very efficient

best wishes
ashraf
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #25 - May 7th, 2010, 8:37am
 
hi asraf..

i used sand filteration system by mixing ac with sand
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Re: BOD/COD; BOD/TOC; COD/TOC ratio
Reply #26 - Apr 11th, 2012, 6:39am
 
Hii Cheknee,

If you want to use any chemical treatment for COD removal you can go with Fenton Reagent i.e. (FeSO4+H2O2).

BOD removal is achieved by Biological treatment only.

Also, if you want to talk about advanced treatment MBBR/MBR is avaialble for BOD/COD removal. you can use that.

One wonderful feature of MBBR is that you can incorporate that in your existing facility also.

I hope this information solve your purpose.

Cheers  Smiley
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