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Sep 8
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› Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
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Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction (Read 3107 times)
fhm
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Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Feb 08
th
, 2005, 9:20am
Hi, we are a dimsum manufacturer, one of our products is chili sauce and shrimp dimsum.
We are currently facing two problems with our waste water, and we appreciate anybody's thoughts on this. We are not really experts in waste water.
We have 2 waste by-products that has been causing us problems with our waste treatment plant. Thus we are currently diverting both waste products. As both of them, when mixed with our treatment plant kills the bacteria.
The first by-product is water that was used with the chilis during cutting. During the cutting process some of the juices of the chili mix with the water. Although, the quantity of this water is not much; about a drum of water, however, whenever we combine this water with our water treatment, it kills all the bacteria. Currently, we are forced to divert the by-product and dispose without processing. We have been informed that the bacteria dies because our water was "hot" from the chili. Is this true?
The second by-product is water that was used to wash the shrimp. The water is mixed lye (potassium hydroxide) and used to wash the shrimp. Somehow, when we mix this concoction to the treatment plant, the bacteria also dies.
Can anybody help us process these waste. Our treatment plant is otherwise ok without these two.
Any help is most appreciated. Thanks
Francis
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ingoprod
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #1 -
Feb 8
th
, 2005, 12:38pm
Hy.
To treat it separately of wwtp, this two wastewaters togeter, it seems to be the best solution.
If you give us your analysis of this two , we can provide you a solution to treat it by electro-catalitic precipitation. There is experience in fruit juice , tomato, winery, wastewaters treatment.
It seems to be same or so.
Please also the flowrate of the wastewater by hour or by day and EPA requirements for the treated water you have in area.
You can contact me to:
ingoprod@netscape.net
regards
ingoprod
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grrun
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #2 -
Feb 8
th
, 2005, 6:02pm
I suspect that part of your problem results from "toxic slugs" of waste to the treatment plant. You do not state the rate at which these wastes are discharged or the capacity or type of biological process used to treat the wastes. Pretreatment of small volumes as suggested by Ingoprod may work, but I suspect that attention to regulating the waste feeding and, perhaps pH control may also prevent your problems. If my gut can accept limited quantities of chillis, then I suspect the bacteria in your treatment plant can also. Anyway, I would need more information about the quantity shrimp wash waste to discover how you are giving your activated sludge a belly ache!
grrun
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sobisch
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #3 -
Feb 9
th
, 2005, 5:52am
Dear Francis,
Though this would not make you happy, I find the findings very interesting. I know about the use or at least of trials to use hot stuff as insecticides. So can chili be used as strong bactericide?
The shrimp wastewater should be neutralized by adding acid or if feasible by reacting with carbon dioxide. There is no reason to wonder that the strong alkaline wastewater kills the bacteria. Electrolytic treatment will be unable to neutralize this waste (shift the pH).
Maybe if you combine the two wastewater, neutralize them and add them in small amounts to your wastewater everything will be fine.
Kind regards
T. Sobisch
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T. Sobisch
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orenda
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #4 -
Feb 9
th
, 2005, 2:11pm
Dear Sobisch:
I must disagree with your premise that electrolytic treatment will be unable to neutralize or shift the pH of the water in question, or for that matter any other industrial effluent.
It is a demonstratable fact that the system mentioned by Ingoprod above can and does shift pH
depending
on the other chemical species present, e.g chlorides, etc.. Whether or not "neutralization" occurs is again a function of what else is present in the water, time of contact, and applied voltage/amperage. There are any number of cases treated by this system in which pH shifts to both acid and alkaline states have been documented.
Regards,
Orenda
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aquaticonsult
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #5 -
Feb 9
th
, 2005, 8:44pm
As the mfg of the ECP process (electrocatlytic precipitation) I'm going to "weigh" in here..
First, chili's contain capsaicin, which is the capsaicoide that makes them hot. The molecular structure is a long chain conglomeration of carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen bonds - so the capsaicin can be "broken" or oxidized by the electrolytic method into's constitutant parts or simple CO2 gas, water, and NO.
Second, capsaicin is a known bactericide - used to destroy salmonella, coliform, and others - so it is logical to assume that it is going to effect the bacteria in any biological system - whether anaerobic or aerobic.
Third, the shrimp washwater pH can probably be reduced by the ECP method, just as stated by Orenda and Ingoprod - the level of reduction will depend on other minerals/metals present in the wastewater.
I would suggest that before you add other chemicals and start messing with the balance of the wastewater system - you look at a simple ECP unit to treat the one to several hundred gallons you have - as this would be a fast batch treatment - rendering it "neutral" to your existing wastewater plant - simpler, easier, less expensive that way.
Regards,
Dave Orlebeke/Aquatic Technologies
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tcmyers
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #6 -
Feb 10
th
, 2005, 12:10pm
Francis,
My first thought is to ensure that the pHs of the two waste streams are the same pH of the main waste treatment system. I would also suggest that you perform pilot testing, to ensure that pH adjustment will benefit your process. Also, if pH adjustment does not correct your problem, make sure your equipment supplier performs a pilot study/test and will guarantee the performance and function of the equipment in writing.
Good luck!
Sincerely,
Tim Myers
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Rudydog
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #7 -
Feb 10
th
, 2005, 2:00pm
Dear John:
I sell an electrolytic water treatment system, commonly referred to as electrocoagulation. I'd would like to weigh in on this as well. Dave is correct in saying that capsaian is a strong bacteriacide and, as such, this loading to your effluent should be treated separately before entering your biological system. Same rules apply to your wash water. I suspect this wash water contains a good level of BOD or COD loading to your effluent.We almost always suggest the wash water should be neutralized to a pH 7 before the Electro-pulse process can be applied to the waste stream. EP workes best at pH's between 6 and 7.
Our processes are continuous and automatic. The EP process does not typcially require any chemicals to provide the BOD and COD removal. I treated a tuna fish wash water with EP down in Mexico that worked extremely well thru our test cell. It resulted in a 70% reduction in BOD and over a 95% TSS reduction in their effluent, which copnsiderably lowered the surcharge they were paying to the City of Mazatlan. We did not test for COD during this project trial.
Another test I ran was out on the OR coast at a sumari processing plant. There, EP worked very well in separating the effluent soilds and thus reducing the BOD loadings for direct discharge.
If we could get a 3 gal sample of each wastewater from you, I can run treat the water thru our bench cell and have tests run on the effluent.
Give us a call and we can arrange to get some waste water foir testing.
Regards,
Peter Evans
Sales Engineer
OilTrap Environmental
(503) 267-3604
(503) 968-7222
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C. Gillen
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #8 -
Feb 10
th
, 2005, 3:20pm
Dear Francis,
I would agree that you need to neutralise the shrimp wash water. Is it an activated sludge system you are using? If so do you have an equalisation tank or buffer tank before the treatment plant. If so what is the volumetric capacity and the daily flow? The way to deal with these streams is to have some form of pretreatment or to have sufficient dilution through a buffer tank so that the inhibitory concentrations are reduced to levels that the plant biomass can handle. The use of bioaugmentation could be helpful in improving the resistance of the biomass to these compounds.
Best regards,
Cgillen
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C. Gillen
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #9 -
Feb 15
th
, 2005, 3:51pm
Dear Francis,
You may want to talk to Ric Casabuena of Prochem Technology Asia Pacific in Manila. ric@prochemtechnology.com. he should be able to help.
Best regards,
Cgillen
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fhm
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #10 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005, 12:36am
Hi, thanks for all your replies.
Am asking my people to do some of your suggestions, primarily neutralizing the two mixtures separately. It is interesting that most of you mentioned a pre- and/or post- treatment before mixing with the main batch. Should this be done with all the waste water before entering the biological chamber? We are using an active sludge treatment facility.
Any suggestions on type of neutralizing agents, we have tried caustic soda to the shrimp mix but this increased the pH level to 11 from 9 as was reported to me
Any help is most appreciated. Thanks to all.
Francis
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #11 -
Feb 17
th
, 2005, 2:52am
You're using the wrong chemical to neutralize the wash water; an acidic compound is necessary to reduce the pH. Sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, or even carbon dioxide may be used to lower the pH. I think you are going to need the assistance of an experienced operator to help you solve your problems.
Sincerely, grrun
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #12 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005, 4:05am
Thanks for all the responses, we tried phosphoric acid on shrimp mix and it lowered the pH level to 7.4 similar to the pH level of main WTP.
Should i explore electrolytic treatment as pre-treatment?
thanks
Francis
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #13 -
Feb 21
st
, 2005, 5:40pm
Fhm:
You may want to revisit the ECP process from Aquatic Consultants as a means of economically and efficiently treating your effluent. The process can be demonstrated to your satisfaction by pilot testing.....contact Dave Orlebeke at aquaticonsult@yahoo.com.
Orenda
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #14 -
Feb 24
th
, 2005, 6:30pm
Re the use of phosphoric acid to decrease pH, note the Grrun's suggestions of HCl or H2SO4 are probably better, as phosphorus is a regulated contaminant in many places as well.
Good luck
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #15 -
Feb 24
th
, 2005, 7:18pm
A note on AndyNC's Comment - I respectfully disagree re the phosphoric acid, it is usually organophosphates that are regulated as opposed to mineral phosphates. Phosphoric acid also has less of safety risk associated with handling than either the hydrochloric or sulfric acids. However I Don't know what the potassium phosphate would do to the treatment works. Any one know the relative bio-availability/stability of potassium between the chloride, sulfate, and phosphate salts.
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #16 -
Feb 24
th
, 2005, 9:28pm
Although Capsaicin is a well documented batericide so too is phenol and the trick here is to get the biomass accustomed to using it as a food source. If the processing of chilli's is a batch one then collect and store the wastewater and "drip feed" into the plant so that the bugs do not recieve a shock dose and "shut up shop", thereby affecting your effluent plant.
As for the Potassium Hydroxide, pH correct before introducing into the plant (conventional activated sludge I presume). Most bugs will tollerate a pH range of between 7.0-8.5 and outside this range the performance of the plant will start to deteriorate.
Simple option:
combine the two wastewater (self neutralisation) in a stirred tank, pH control system, use HCl or H2SO4 or CO2, and a small feed upm to your treatment plant.
Not going to get into the arguement/benefits of electrolytic treatment!!
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #17 -
Feb 24
th
, 2005, 9:47pm
Re reply by dbrock to andyNC
A large number domestic wastewater treatment plants in NZ, Australia and Europe are consented for Total Phosphorus as they contribute to eutrophication (depends on whther N or P is the limiting nutrient).
Therefore, where a plant does have a P consent, adding a source of P is asking for trouble! Not only that but Phos Acid is very expensive (white acid more than green) and CO2 or the usual mineral acids should be used.
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #18 -
Feb 24
th
, 2005, 11:54pm
Thanks to the The Source for correcting my Faux Pas. Wondering though do they not distinguish between phosphorous and phosphates? my experience, albeit limited to the USA, is that phosphates are limited, I have yet to run across a limit specifically for phosphorous. Or are we all regulating the same thing just naming it differently. Sorry for sounding provincial. D
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #19 -
Feb 25
th
, 2005, 12:10am
Phosphorus or phosphates! That is the question!
Most plants that I have come across have a Totoal Phosphorus concent that will encompass all forms of P (both organic and inorganic). During the treatment process of domestic sewage by activated sludge (and nearly all other viariants), the organic P is oxidised to orthophosphate. Ortho-P can be removed from the effluent by dosing Iron or Aluminium salts to precipitate the soluble P to the settleable insoluble form.
Gone off on a tangent a bit on the original answer, but what the hell!
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #20 -
Feb 25
th
, 2005, 3:49am
Dbrock:
As The_Solution states, most phosphorus in wastewater, in whatever form, is converted to ortho-phosphates which require removal to discharge limits. Although chemical removal is commonly done with ferric salts (chloride, mostly) and aluminum salts, both have the disadvantage of being a corrosive material in the former case, and an acidic sludge producer in the latter.
An alternative is lanthanum chloride, which creates neither problem and stoichiometrically removes ortho-phosphates entirely from the water column in a form that is unavailable as a plant or algae food source for geologic time.
E-mail me at orendatech@earthlink.net if this is of further interest to you.
Regards,
Orenda
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #21 -
Feb 25
th
, 2005, 1:38pm
As long as wr are digressing, don't forget that microorganisms contain P and may release some of it as they age. I'm not sure if you would consider this organic P or not, but when you digest a sample of effluent with a substantial concentration of suspended solids, it will have both soluble and insoluble P components.
grrun
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Re: Waste Water Chili/Shrimp concoction
Reply #22 -
Feb 25
th
, 2005, 2:12pm
Grrun:
Continuing with our digression, yes, microorganisms, algae and other aquatic plant materials do release phosphorus as they age and die. We've found that most of the P so released is as ortho-P which re-enters the water column.
However, with continued chemical removal of ortho-phosphates over time, usually short, there is a decreasing amount of ortho-P available, which we generally aim to control at or below 125 ppb to obviate organic growth.
Orenda
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