Water and Wastewater.com Help Forums - SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 4

Company or Organization: st regis paper company

SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Nov 12^th, 2006, 2:32pm

I wonder if anyone can help me with my problem. I run and maintain 2 sbr's each with a capacity of 3000 m3 , the reactors are continuously fed with a feed aeration period ,then an aeration period then a settlement period and then a decant, desludge ,selector period.over 12 hours. basically while one sbr is doing one thing the other is doing the opposite.

After a spell of maintainence on one of the sbr's (2 weeks) I had to fill up the repaired sbr and did so by decanting half of the mlss from one sbr to the other.

Unfortunately i was not able to monitor the sbr that was left on line ( iwas actually inside the other sbr repairing the airation system) but upon my first chance i got to check the life under the microscope I think I have an abundance of S natans ( they look like a lot of hair clippings under the microscope)

I hope that i have given enough info if not let me know if there is anything else relevant for me to add.

My question is, has a sudden change in F:m ratio led to a proliferance of S natans filaments

Cheers.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Nov 12^th, 2006, 5:43pm by Joseph Taylor »

IP Logged

Victor

God Member

Offline

Escherichia coli
Happens!

Posts: 1269

Company or Organization: www.santacruzproductions.com

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #1 - Nov 12^th, 2006, 2:42pm

TonyFisher:

Sphaerotilus natans looks like a tree branch (one of the few filamentous bacteria capable of branching) without leaves. S natans proliferates when there is high concentration of highly soluble BOD and little N and P. PHB granules may form within the filament and these can be viewed with a phase contrast microscope or stained using a PHB stain. You need to let us know what is your F/M, what type of wastewater you are treating?

Back to top

www.santacruzproductions.com
http://santacruzproductions.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/groupInvitation?groupID=2328156&sharedKey=6D694C2A168C
Disclaimer! Please Read:
There is no warranty or assumption of any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or

IP Logged

grrun

God Member

Offline

WaterandWastewa
ter.Com is the best!

Posts: 3526
Pekin, IL
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Freelance Environmental Engine

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #2 - Nov 12^th, 2006, 7:04pm

Sounds like Victor has identified the reason for your microscopic observations. The operating SBR had to be obviously overloaded and it will take some time to stabilize your activated sludge again in both SBRs. Don't try to compensate by changing your sludge wasting from what you were doing before taking the SBR out of service. Maintaining a consistent sludge should return the SBRs to the previous operating condition.

Also, it'll be worthwhile to check the nutrient ratios.

grrun

Back to top

IP Logged

tonyfisher

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 4

Company or Organization: st regis paper company

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #3 - Nov 13^th, 2006, 9:15am

I try to run the F:M (cod) ratio at 0.18 - 0.2
The waste water is fom a paper machine not municipal treatment
I have an influent flow of 1500 - 2000 m3 a day with an average cod of 2500 and a solids load of 300ppm
If you say that s natans are branched, then have you any idea wht type of filament it is that I can see.
Also is there any good books or documents that I can read to help me in identifying bugs and filaments, I understand that staining is the only true way to determin the type but a reference manual would be helpfull. Any ideas would be gratefully accepted.
Thanks

Back to top

IP Logged

Tom Keenan - nesa

God Member

Offline

Environmental
Consultant - contact
info@nesa.ie

Posts: 2103

Gender: male

Company or Organization: nesa environmental consultants

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #4 - Nov 13^th, 2006, 10:37am

Hi tonyfisher,
I also believe that the problem with SBR 1 has been caused by the enforced doubling of the loading during the period when SBR 2 was out of service.
Unfortunately, although this problem has developed over a relatively short period, you will probably appreciate that the recovery time is very likley to be much longer than a two week period. The recovery time can reasonably be expected to be at least equivalent to the sludge age, and in practice may even extend to 1.5 times the sludge age.

Back to top

tomkeenan@nesa.ie
Environmental Consultant
www.nesa.ie

IP Logged

tonyfisher

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 4

Company or Organization: st regis paper company

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #5 - Nov 13^th, 2006, 12:50pm

Yes I can see what you are saying but sbr 1 load did not change, the amount of influent was exactly the same as normal (I wasnt asking sbr1 to take a load 24 hrs a day just the normal 12 hours ) although what i had to do initially was take the mlss from sbr 2 and put it into sbr1 and by doing this have increased the mlss in sbr 1 to almost double what it was
thus changing the F:M ratio by increasing the mlss, within a couple of hours.
Thanks.Tony.

Back to top

IP Logged

Victor

God Member

Offline

Escherichia coli
Happens!

Posts: 1269

Company or Organization: www.santacruzproductions.com

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #6 - Nov 13^th, 2006, 6:36pm

TonyFisher:

Hopefully, you have a phase contrast microscope with 100x (oil immersion) objective. Otherwise, you will not be able to identify the culprit filamentous bacteria. If you do, use the following website to assist you in your identification.

http://home1.gte.net/vsjslsk1/index.htm

If you need help identifying the bacteria let me know.

Back to top

www.santacruzproductions.com
http://santacruzproductions.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/groupInvitation?groupID=2328156&sharedKey=6D694C2A168C
Disclaimer! Please Read:
There is no warranty or assumption of any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or

IP Logged

C. Gillen God Member Offline Applied Environmental Biotechnology Posts: 773 Ireland Gender: Company or Organization: BioFuture Ltd.	Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM Reply #7 - Nov 14^th, 2006, 4:10pm Tony, What SV30 or SVI are you getting? What is final effluent TSS? You may want to consider bioaugmentation to restore good biomass conditions. Best regards, Cgillen
Back to top	IP Logged

tonyfisher

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 4

Company or Organization: st regis paper company

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #8 - Nov 14^th, 2006, 5:10pm

I have already started a bioaugmentation program
Both sbrs look very similair under the microscope
sv30 sbr1 is 800 sv30 sbr2 is 750
I have looked at the website you gave me and I think the filaments that I have could be either type 021n or thiothrix 1
my only problem is that most of the filaments are free and not within the floc this is not something that I have seen before, but I think it may be pointing to a nutrient deficiency I am just waiting for my test results.
Thanks.Tony
I have just done my tests and found normal level of ammonia and nitrate but a lower reading of phosphate by around 60%
so maybe it is a nutrient deficiency, I am just going to go and increase the pump slightly.

Back to top

IP Logged

DoctorBug

God Member

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 502

Company or Organization: Michael Richard Wastewater Mic

Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM
Reply #9 - Nov 15^th, 2006, 4:15am

Tonyfisher:

It is not clear from your description whether you have S. natans, Thiothrix or type 021N. All three of these filaments are very common causes of bulking in papermill activated sludge systems. It is important to identify the offending filament(s) as these have different causes. S. natans is caused by low oxygen concentration and also by low phosphorus. It would be encouraged by higher F/M and the higher oxygen uptake rate at this condition. Thiothrix and type 021N are caused by septicity and organic acids formed at this condition. These indicate no DO, not low DO.

Without knowing the filament(s) present, I would try to maximize oxygen concentration and add excess phosphorus. The system should return to normal within 1-2 sludge ages when the F/M is
back to normal.

To help identify filaments, refer to the book: Manual on the Causes and Control of Activated Sludge Bulking, Foaming and Other Solids Separation Problems, 3rd ed. by David Jenkins et al., Lewis publishers (www.crcpress.com).

Hope that this helps.

Back to top

IP Logged

jenchem YaBB Newbies Offline WaterandWastewa ter.Com is the best! Posts: 21 Gender:	Re: SBR . S NATANS PROBLEM Reply #10 - Jun 8^th, 2012, 5:34pm From all the information and communications, what was the finally results? How did you finally get your plant back in line?
Back to top	IP Logged