Home
W&WW Blog Case Histories Books Shop Amazon Member Survey Advertise ?
Buyer's Guide News Help Forum Ask Tom! Jobs Videos Online Training

Water and Wastewater.com Help Forums

Click here now

Search

Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
May 22nd, 2013, 9:40am
Top 10 Members
Runyan Sobisch Keenan Seghers Santa Cruz Gillen Kendall Orlebeke Ayrus Kersey
  HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup (Read 333 times)
edbrady
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 4


Company or Organization: Water Management
RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Feb 15th, 2012, 4:32pm
 
I plan on using 7.5 gpm RO effluent for CT makeup. The water is softened and then put through an RO; I am having the water tested this week. Does anyone have any ideas on designing a small (250 gallon) tank with a level sensor that would communicate with a VFD to slow/speed up the pump as the level sinks/rises in the tank?
Is there an off the shelf solution?

Ed Brady
edbrady1@verizon.net
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
grrun
God Member
*****
Offline

WaterandWastewa
ter.Com is the best!

Posts: 3525
Pekin, IL
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Freelance Environmental Engine
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #1 - Feb 15th, 2012, 5:59pm
 
While we think of RO water as being relatively pure, it will still need some sort of chemical treatment to prevent corrosion and perhaps other problems when it recirculated and evaporated in a cooling tower. I'm just not sure if this is an economical approach to cooling tower management.

grrun
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
edbrady
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 4


Company or Organization: Water Management
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #2 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:04pm
 
Thanks, but if the effluent is better quality than the city water, seems to be a good measure?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
grrun
God Member
*****
Offline

WaterandWastewa
ter.Com is the best!

Posts: 3525
Pekin, IL
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Freelance Environmental Engine
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #3 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:11pm
 
Is there a cost comparison between RO effluent and city water?

grrun
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Jeff Naumann
God Member
*****
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 1133
Torrance, California
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Jeff Naumann & Associates
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #4 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:26pm
 
Will the cooling tower actually require 7.5 gpm on a consistent basis?

Does the RO system produce a constant 7.5 gpm?

How did you come up with needing 250 gallons of storage?

Is the RO unit near the cooling tower?  If so, you could get by with a simple float valve, just like in a toilet tank.  Or, just have the tank above the makeup tank level for the cooling tower, fed by the RO tank, as long as the tank water level is above the cooling tower makeup tank water level.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
edbrady
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 4


Company or Organization: Water Management
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #5 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:28pm
 
City water is almost $7 per kGal; I do not know what the cost is to produce the RO water. It is at Sanofi Pharma and is quite an elaborate process. They are making WFI and I am grabbing the water early in the process. I was really wondering about the pumping scenario; it is quite complicated.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
edbrady
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 4


Company or Organization: Water Management
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #6 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:32pm
 
Jeff;
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, the flow is a constant 7.5 gpm.
On Sunday during CIP, the effluent will hit 150 F so I can't use water on that day. Seems like I need a temp probe to shut the pump down.

Also will need a float to shut the pump off because the 7.5 will exceed the demand during the winter months. Looks like I need a PLC and a VFD? Multiple variables plus a level sensor in the tank.

The 250 gallon tank is not a definite, I was just using is for illustrative purposes. I need some kind of storage (kind of like a lift station) to control the pump speed by using a level sensor. At least that is what I am coming up with.

EJB
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Jeff Naumann
God Member
*****
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 1133
Torrance, California
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Jeff Naumann & Associates
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #7 - Feb 15th, 2012, 6:33pm
 
Is the RO system being operated already?

I'm not personally experienced with an RO system; but, assume that most of the cost is in electrical power, plus whatever cost is involved of disposal of the reject stream, plus cost of membrane replacement and its maintenance.  If they need to operate it already, I guess the water is free, unless some additional treatment cost incurs above that of using city water.

If it's free, you can just provide the RO permeate to a tank placed above the cooling tower makeup tank, with a float valve that opens whenever the water level drops, allowing gravity to fill up to the set elevation.  Envision the valve in your toilet.
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
grrun
God Member
*****
Offline

WaterandWastewa
ter.Com is the best!

Posts: 3525
Pekin, IL
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Freelance Environmental Engine
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #8 - Feb 15th, 2012, 10:27pm
 
Bubbler systems or level sensors can put out a ma signal which can control a VFD.

See: http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=toolbar-instant&hl=en&ion=1&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS356US357#hl=en&xhr=t&q=level+controls&cp=14&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS356US357&site=webhp&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=g1g-j3&aql=&oq=level+controls&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=9bebf545d76b293f&ion=1&biw=1024&bih=510

How can the RO be less expensive than city water when the RO feed is City water that has all the other expenses added to it and is only 80-90% recoverable in addition to possible residual disposal. The second Law of Thermodynamics confirms that there is no free lunch.
You need to carefully analyse your proposal before execution. City water costs vs RO water costs. Consider the evaporation rates and cycles of concentration. It seems to me that once you reach a blowdown concentration with RO water, you'll have comparable blowdown rates with City water and the evaporation rates will be comparable. I suggest that you consult a cooling tower manufacturer.

grrun
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Don Davis
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 8


Company or Organization: Expert Cooling Tower
Re: RO Effluent as Cooling Tower Makeup
Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2012, 11:20am
 
I know nothing about RO but I do work on cooling towers. I recently encountered an installation with a galvanized steel basin with a steam coil for freeze protection. The steam coil developed a leak allowing steam condensate into the basin. The tower was idle for an extended period allowing condensate to build up. It created a huge mess- like a hand grenade went off. My only caution is you had better make sure RO effulent isn't corrosive or you very well may ruin the cooling tower.
If RO water is ok, consider directing all of it to the tower. The standard make-up will work less and the excess will simply overflow to drain.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged