Water and Wastewater.com Help Forums - Because I don't know any beater.

FeldWill

YaBB Newbies

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 5

Company or Organization: self

Because I don't know any beater.
Mar 15^th, 2012, 2:37pm

Recently I worked on a few things for municipal waste water treatment plants. And I couldn't help to wonder "Why are we doing this?". Can't we dump human expulsion in the canyon somewhere, pipe it into fields or forests? In my defense animals do it. Or use it for fertilizer. Just as my title says "I just don't know any better". Why do we process this stuff?

Regards
W

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeff Naumann God Member Offline I love Water and Wastewater.com Posts: 1133 Torrance, California Gender: Company or Organization: Jeff Naumann & Associates	Re: Because I don't know any beater. Reply #1 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 3:02pm Why not do a little experiment at home. Discharge all of the waste into your back yard, if you have one. See what happens. Also, read some history of what sanitation was like in the "good old days."
Back to top	IP Logged

FeldWill

YaBB Newbies

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 5

Company or Organization: self

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #2 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 3:38pm

Jeff Naumann wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 3:02pm:

Why not do a little experiment at home. Discharge all of the waste into your back yard, if you have one. See what happens. Also, read some history of what sanitation was like in the "good old days."

Done it in the woods before and nobody died. As I understand, before they didn't take it out of the cities. Now we can pipe it to Mojave Desert or something. May be create some farming land in the process.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dedalus Full Member Offline Science is a business of empiricism. Posts: 238 NY Gender: Company or Organization: Dedalus Environmental	Re: Because I don't know any beater. Reply #3 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 3:50pm Sure, but if you had thousands of people pooping under trees in a limited area, there'd be consequences. Massive amounts of untreated sewage isn't necessarily the best fertilizer, either.
Back to top	IP Logged

FeldWill

YaBB Newbies

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 5

Company or Organization: self

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #4 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 4:00pm

Dedalus wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 3:50pm:

Sure, but if you had thousands of people pooping under trees in a limited area, there'd be consequences. Massive amounts of untreated sewage isn't necessarily the best fertilizer, either.

I'm not proposing "pooping" under the trees, I understand the convenience of doing it in the house. My question is why don't we just pipe it to the deserts, or empty oil wells, or have better use for it. We pipe natural gas and oil. Why do we have this complicated process just to throw it out. Either throw it out, or have complicated process to use it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Jeff Naumann

God Member

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 1133
Torrance, California
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Jeff Naumann & Associates

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #5 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 4:09pm

A bit of history of sanitation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation

A bit of personal history, is that one of my great grandfathers died from typhoid in 1895, while living in St. Louis. In those days hundreds of thousands of people died every year in the U. S., from living in the antiquated sanitation of of the day. Almost nobody dies from that and related illnesses in the developed world these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

Back to top

IP Logged

FeldWill

YaBB Newbies

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 5

Company or Organization: self

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #6 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 9:07pm

Jeff Naumann wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 4:09pm:

A bit of history of sanitation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation

A bit of personal history, is that one of my great grandfathers died from typhoid in 1895, while living in St. Louis. In those days hundreds of thousands of people died every year in the U. S., from living in the antiquated sanitation of of the day. Almost nobody dies from that and related illnesses in the developed world these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your great grandparent. But, lighthouses helped sailors find shore- doesn't mean we have to continue building them. City walls protected people inside- doesn't mean we should fortify our cities. Letters kept us connected- doesn't mean I should keep in touch with my family in Texas by mail.
May be ultraviolet water purification broke in St. Louis in 1895. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.

P.S. I greatly appreciate scientific/economic explanations I'm receiving like:
Take a crap in the woods.
Typhoid in 1895

Best Regards
W

Back to top

IP Logged

Victor

YaBB Moderator

Offline

Escherichia coli
Happens!

Posts: 1269

Company or Organization: www.santacruzproductions.com

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #7 - Mar 15^th, 2012, 10:29pm

FeldWill wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 9:07pm:

Jeff Naumann wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 4:09pm:

A bit of history of sanitation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation

A bit of personal history, is that one of my great grandfathers died from typhoid in 1895, while living in St. Louis. In those days hundreds of thousands of people died every year in the U. S., from living in the antiquated sanitation of of the day. Almost nobody dies from that and related illnesses in the developed world these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your great grandparent. But, lighthouses helped sailors find shore- doesn't mean we have to continue building them. City walls protected people inside- doesn't mean we should fortify our cities. Letters kept us connected- doesn't mean I should keep in touch with my family in Texas by mail.
May be ultraviolet water purification broke in St. Louis in 1895. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.

P.S. I greatly appreciate scientific/economic explanations I'm receiving like:
Take a crap in the woods.
Typhoid in 1895

Best Regards
W

FeldWill:

Cannot take your comments seriously:

"lighthouses helped sailors find shore- doesn't mean we have to continue building them" What do lighthouses have to do with wastewater treatment, sanitation? Absolutely nothing. Faulty logic at best. "City walls protected people inside- doesn't mean we should fortify our cities." Again, what does this have to do with the topic? NADA! Non sequitur. "Letters kept us connected- doesn't mean I should keep in touch with my family in Texas by mail" Again, faulty common sense. "May be ultraviolet water purification broke in St. Louis in 1895" UV water purification in 1895? Now, this would be a breakthrough. Your statements go from nonsensical to plain absurd! Please, keep on posting. We all need a laugh now and then.

Do take into consideration that you are posting to a site that receives a large amount of traffic. You are portraying your persona in many ways by what you post, information inherent to your posts, as well as intents. Mr. Naumann was willing to divulge personal information with regards to your query and consequences from sanitation drawbacks. Please, should I take you as a serious person or someone willing to not only listen but learn from a historical, hygienic, scientific perspective? Your response will determine the course of this thread.

Back to top

www.santacruzproductions.com
http://santacruzproductions.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/groupInvitation?groupID=2328156&sharedKey=6D694C2A168C
Disclaimer! Please Read:
There is no warranty or assumption of any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or

IP Logged

FeldWill

YaBB Newbies

Offline

I love Water and
Wastewater.com

Posts: 5

Company or Organization: self

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #8 - Mar 16^th, 2012, 5:06pm

Victor wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 10:29pm:

FeldWill wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 9:07pm:

Jeff Naumann wrote on Mar 15^th, 2012, 4:09pm:

A bit of history of sanitation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation

A bit of personal history, is that one of my great grandfathers died from typhoid in 1895, while living in St. Louis. In those days hundreds of thousands of people died every year in the U. S., from living in the antiquated sanitation of of the day. Almost nobody dies from that and related illnesses in the developed world these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your great grandparent. But, lighthouses helped sailors find shore- doesn't mean we have to continue building them. City walls protected people inside- doesn't mean we should fortify our cities. Letters kept us connected- doesn't mean I should keep in touch with my family in Texas by mail.
May be ultraviolet water purification broke in St. Louis in 1895. Once again I'm sorry for your loss.

P.S. I greatly appreciate scientific/economic explanations I'm receiving like:
Take a crap in the woods.
Typhoid in 1895

Best Regards
W

FeldWill:

Cannot take your comments seriously:

"lighthouses helped sailors find shore- doesn't mean we have to continue building them" What do lighthouses have to do with wastewater treatment, sanitation? Absolutely nothing. Faulty logic at best. "City walls protected people inside- doesn't mean we should fortify our cities." Again, what does this have to do with the topic? NADA! Non sequitur. "Letters kept us connected- doesn't mean I should keep in touch with my family in Texas by mail" Again, faulty common sense. "May be ultraviolet water purification broke in St. Louis in 1895" UV water purification in 1895? Now, this would be a breakthrough. Your statements go from nonsensical to plain absurd! Please, keep on posting. We all need a laugh now and then.

Do take into consideration that you are posting to a site that receives a large amount of traffic. You are portraying your persona in many ways by what you post, information inherent to your posts, as well as intents. Mr. Naumann was willing to divulge personal information with regards to your query and consequences from sanitation drawbacks. Please, should I take you as a serious person or someone willing to not only listen but learn from a historical, hygienic, scientific perspective? Your response will determine the course of this thread.

The reason I brought up those examples is "if we didn't question things around us as obsolete we still would have been guided by light houses, protected by city walls and communicate through letters". If you couldn't put 2 and 2 together may be you should worry about alot of people reading these posts.

Updated list:

Take a crap in the woods.
Typhoid in 1895
And I'm a joke of the forum.

Still no logical explanation.

Back to top

IP Logged

Dedalus Full Member Offline Science is a business of empiricism. Posts: 238 NY Gender: Company or Organization: Dedalus Environmental	Re: Because I don't know any beater. Reply #9 - Mar 19^th, 2012, 2:40pm My friend, I don't anyone here intends to belittle you. It's just...I think if you saw the headworks of any good sized sewage treatment plant, it'd alter your perspective. It's a Niagra of pure nasty. You'd have to pump it out into the middle of the Sahara, or something, and that would have its own set of problems.
Back to top	IP Logged

David S.

Senior Member

Offline

I have nothing
clever to say here.

Posts: 373

Gender: male

Company or Organization: Environmental Express

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #10 - Mar 20^th, 2012, 9:33am

You have to remember that what goes into a wastewater treatment plant is not just human waste. Think of all the things that go down drains and are flushed in toilets - personal hygiene items, drain cleaner, paint, toys, drugs (legal and otherwise), condoms, and tampons are just some off the top of my head. Now think of all the other things that you wouldn't normally think of going down the drain - clothing, nails, screws, home chemistry experiments, rope, and who knows what else. Next you have to consider the fact that rain water runoff also ends up in the same place. You end up with a mix that just isn't suitable for piping out somewhere to make farmland. So you will have to do some preliminary treatment to begin with. Then you have to do testing to ensure that your treated material has been treated properly. Shipping the actual material is another problem to consider. The volume generated is huge. Ask people the size of their plants and you will hear numbers in the range of million gallons per day. The largest tanker trucks can only hold about 8000 gallons. Also, the type of land that you mentioned making usable, desert, is not just nutrient poor, it has that small problem of precipitation. You will also have to get past the environmental groups who will be protesting the destruction of a natural habitat. Canyons and gorges are not just holes in the ground. Usually a river is what formed them and is still running through the bottom of it. Then you have the psychological aspect of it. Very few people will want to live on or use land that has been rehabilitated with sewage. Add all this up and I think that local treatment and release back to the water supply is the best option. Your opinions may differ.

Back to top

Working hard to bring reason to the field of regulation.

IP Logged

BarfingCat

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Water and
Wastewater.com is
the best!

Posts: 34
Independence, MO
Gender: male

Company or Organization: Little Blue Valley Sewer Dist.

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #11 - Mar 20^th, 2012, 11:29am

When we were upgrading our plant, the construction workers got a healthy respect for the system when the main flow gate closed (because someone cut a control system wire and the computer closed the gate to protect the facility) and 60 million gallons of wastewater flooded their work site putting trailers, trucks, bulldozers, and cranes under 30 feet of water. From then on, they understood why we were upgrading to a bigger facility.

Back to top

IP Logged

Eric Raj

God Member

Offline

As long as it flows,
I'll treat it!

Posts: 518

Gender: male

Company or Organization: City of Bedford

Re: Because I don't know any beater.
Reply #12 - Mar 26^th, 2012, 2:13pm

W,

Prhaps you have just seen biosolids getting dumped in a landfill? That is a waste of a resource. But there are plants that apply solids to land or compost it or pelletize it to be fertlizer. Treatment is necessary to remove industrial chemicals and other compounds that alter genetic material and cause mutations and cancers. Nano materials are being dumped into our environment without sufficient research into what their impact will ultimately be upon the microorganisms that they come into contact with. Fish gender is being adversely impacted by substances that are entering into our wastewater plants but can't be removed. So, we can't simply repipe the "stuff" out to the boonies and dump it into some big hole. We would be creating a ticking time bomb that would erradicate everyone in the future once the "stuff" reached the aquifers and entered into our drinking water supplies.

~Eric

Back to top

IP Logged