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May 23rd, 2013, 12:02pm
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do you think we have design problem? (Read 536 times)
qasempur
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do you think we have design problem?
May 12th, 2012, 12:15pm
 
I work in petrochemical company. we recently run a SBR reactor with this parameters:

1 COD is 27000 ppm
2- aeration basin is 1750 m3
3- Q=400 m3/batch
4- one batch is 17hr
5-feeding is 4 hr
6- aeration is 10 hr
7- sedimentation is 1hr
8- decantation is 1 hr
but the outlet COD should be 2000ppm but only with 80 m3/batch we reach to 2000 ppm
effluent is  MEG (mono ethylene glycol what is my problem
thank you for advise
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #1 - May 12th, 2012, 1:21pm
 
What is your SV30? What is your sludge age? What is the soluble COD? Is this a new start-up? What is the effluent BOD?

My reason for asking these questions is that I'm trying to determine if this is a start-up problem, an operational problem, or a design problem. If the settling is a problem, then the soluble COD should be much lower than the total COD. BOD may indicate how much of the COD is biologically treatable. A new start-up may involve sludge age problems and sludge age may identify WAS problems. SV30 results may indicate sludge age, settling, and/or start-up problems. If the design was based on the original load parameters; then it could very well be an operational problem. The other design factors that may impact operation could be the the decanting and WAS design which may cause some problems.

grrun
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #2 - May 12th, 2012, 4:51pm
 
Are you adding nutrients or checking on nutrients?  I assume you are running an SBR.  How many blowers do you have at what horsepower?  What type of diffuser system do you have?
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Tom Keenan - nesa
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #3 - May 13th, 2012, 9:26am
 
Based on the limited information provided it seems that yummy very well be overloading the system with each batch of 400 m3. If the 80 m3 is achieving the emission limit then 400 m3 does seem like a bit too much.
Why don't you carry out some bench tests using various loading rates equivalent to the 80 m3 batch and upwards. Then check the "treated" effluent quality in the different scenarios.
You would also be advised to check nutrient levels in the incoming wastewater as well.
However I do think that you are probably overloading the system with the 400 m3 batch.
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #4 - May 14th, 2012, 3:51am
 
Hi qasempur,
Would tend to agree with Tom that the system may be overloaded at 400m3. The things to check are MLSS, DO, pH and nutrients. MEG is relatively easy to biodegrade so there must be some limitations on the degradation.

Best regards,
Cgillen
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qasempur
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #5 - May 14th, 2012, 10:48am
 
Thanks a lot for your advise and comment .
I forgot
MLSS is  3500ppm
SST 800
but with this parameters  F/m >1
I want know this F/m is possible ?or we have design problem.
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Tom Keenan - nesa
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #6 - May 14th, 2012, 10:54am
 
I think there absolutely no doubt that you have a design problem, if the figures you are quoting are correct,.... A massive problem.!!!!!
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #7 - May 14th, 2012, 11:16am
 
I agree with Tom - you have a big design problem! Based on your figures a load of 80m3 would give an F/M of 0.2 - 0.3 which is more realistic.
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #8 - May 14th, 2012, 11:27am
 
It sounds like this waste should be pre-treated anaerobically first, then polished off in the SBR. It's worth contacting an engineering company and looking at biogas production, cost savings and payback time on an upgrade etc.
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #9 - May 14th, 2012, 1:41pm
 
I won't argue with the previous poster's conclusions. MEG is very biodegradable and you haven't responded with DO concentrations during the cycles. If the DO during filling goes to zero, you need to provide additional DO to maintain the MLSS. Your TSSs also impact the higher COD and are an indication that settling is not satisfactory. The 80 m3 discharge may also be the result of poor settling and/or inadequate oxidation.

What is the sludge age of your MLSSs and what is the SV30? I'm just trying to tie up some of the unknowns of your problem.

grrun
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« Last Edit: May 14th, 2012, 6:50pm by grrun »  
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qasempur
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #10 - May 18th, 2012, 12:48pm
 
thanks again for your answers
I agree with Mr. grrun the MEG is biodegradable but the designer had  mistake about  first sampling , because concentration of MEG is very low in our wastewater the coefficent that designer has used is for MEG but component is different
so i want know  does we have source or handbook for determine   degree of biodegradable of  various components  in wastewater?

Thanks again
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #11 - May 18th, 2012, 2:03pm
 
What else is in the waste?  What are the oil and grease and suspended solids concentrations of the influent?  How much variability in the influent is there?
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Re: do you think we have design problem?
Reply #12 - May 21st, 2012, 2:58am
 
Hi qasempur,
Have a look at Handbook of Environmental Data on Organic Chemicals by Verschueren.

Best regards,
Cgillen
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